Andrew GREGG {M} [P206] = Izabella MCILWRAITH {F} [P208]

Married Sunday 7 June 1846, Barr/Colmonell IGI-M115822

Andrew GREGG:

Born Friday 17 December 1813, Glashculloch Ayrs
Died Thursday 11 June 1885, Halfmark Barrhill Ayrs
SOURCE: gravestone Barr / IG
Jeff Higgins - June 2004: I have the following Census entries...
1841: Andrew, with parents and siblings George, Jannet and James at Balnahoin, Colmonell. John Coughtrie and family were nearby at Ligatchuk. The Kelly's (Alexander and Agnes) were living just over the border at Castle in Penninghame.


Izabella MCILWRAITH:

Alias Izabella GREGG (EST 1845)
Born Monday 11 August 1823, Daljedburgh Mill Barr Ayrs
Christened Monday 8 September 1823, Barr Scotland
Died Sunday 17 January 1904, Braehead Kirkinner Wigtown
SOURCE: M.I-Headstone - Barr /IGI
Jeff Higgins June 2004: Isabella McIlwraith was born 11 Aug 1823 at Jedburgh Mill, Barr (baptised 08 Sep 1823, Est Church of Scotland, Barr), her parents were John McIlwraith (c.1800-1894) and Agnes McCargow (1798-1885 and a first cousin of Andrew Gregg[P206]).

Agnes GREGG {F} [P1779]

Born Wednesday 12 May 1847, Mark Farm Barr Ayrs
Died Sunday 28 April 1861, Cossamuck Cottage Colmonell Ayrs
Jeff Higgins - June 2004: Child 1. Agnes Gregg, born 12 May 1847 at Mark, Barr (the McIlwraith family had the lease on Mark farm for many years). Agnes died from typhus fever on 29 Apr 1861 at Cossamuck cottage in Colmonell (the date and place given for her death on her father's monument are incorrect, I suspect it was erected in the early 1900's so I guess we can forgive someone a memory lapse). Agnes was living with the rest of the family at Cossamuck when the census was taken 3 weeks before her death.

John GREGG {M} [P1781]

Born December 1850, Craigend Colmonell Ayrs
Died Tuesday 5 June 1928, The Glen Irongray Kirkcudbright
OCCUPATION: Shepherd (Died Unmarried)
________________________________________________________________
From Janet Greig Smith March 2007/ Sept 2008. janetgreigsmith@tiscali.co.uk:
Hi, My name is Janet Greig Smith (Bell) and I thought you might be interested in these photos of my family I think one picture answers the John Gregg question quite nicely. Yes my Great Uncle John did go to America at least twice and then went to live with his nephew Andrew Greig and his wife (Mary Gray McMinn) and their children William, Janet and Margaret (my mother) at the Glen Farm Nr. Shawhead Dumfrieshire until his death in 1928. I would be more than happy to share my history with others.
Sally is his niece and the daughter of Janet Jess and William Greig my Great Grandparents, she was their youngest daughter and her full name was Sarah Prestly Greig.
________________________________________________________________
Jeff Higgins - June 2004:
Child 3.John Gregg, born Dec 1850 at Craigend, Colmonell. He never married and was a shepherd. I have all relevant census entries for John. In 1901 he was living of his own account. He died 05 Jun 1928 at the home of his nephew Andrew Greig (son of William above) who lived at The Glen, Irongray, Kirkcudbright.
and....
John Greig, 56, arrived in New York aboard the "Caledonia" on 07 Jul 1907, he was on his way to see his sister Mrs Janet Kelly in Seneca. He was a shepherd and lived in Pinwherry, Ayrshire.
John Greig, 62, arrived in New York again aboard the Caledonia (superstitious perhaps) on 14 Apr 1913, he was on his way to see his sister Mrs Janet Kelly in Seneca. He was a shepherd and he gave his brother Ivan Gregg, in Ballantrae, as a contact.

these seem to be the only TWO occasions that John visited.
I can't find a 1901 census entry for Ivie and family, at first I thought they may have visited the U.S. around that time, but there seems to be no Ellis Island entry for an Ivie Greig (or variants). Maybe I haven't looked hard enough for Ivie in the 1901.
Could the man in the photo be John and his sister Janet Kelly?
Maybe Shannon has a pic of Janet to compare
Would appreciate your thoughts
Regards
Jeff
__________________________________________________________________
Shannon Kelly informs us that the lady in the photo was in fact his great aunt 'Belle' Kelly[P1724], a niece of John Gregg[P1781].

William GREGG {M} [P1780] = Janet JESS {F} [P1905] > Family [F537]

Married Friday 8 June 1888, Mahaar Farm Inch (Freechurch) Wigtown IGI/M191181

William GREGG:

Born Friday 8 August 1851, Craigend Colmonell Ayrs
Died Tuesday 31 August 1920, Preston Mill Kirkbean Kirkcudbright
OCCUPATION: Shepherd
From Janet Greig Smith - March 2007 (janetgreigsmith@tiscali.co.uk ).
William GREGG: Born 8th August 1851Craigend Colmonell Ayrs
Died Tuesday 31 August 1920, Preston Mill Kirkbean Kirkcudbright
On 31st August 1920, 7 am at Preston Mill
William Greig (Shepherd - Married to Janet Gess - 1881) died aged 71: son of
Andrew Greig (Shepherd - deceased & Isabella Greig m/s Mcillwraith
deceased)
Cause of death: Carbuncle - Blood poisoning, Heart Failure
Certified by Hugh Gillies M. R. C. P.
Informant: Andrew Gregg (son), Glen, Shawhead, Irongray
(Ref: 1920d/Kirkbean, Co. Kirkudbright 870-5)
OCCUPATION: Shepherd

Jeff Higgins - June 2004:
2.William Gregg, born c.1849 at Craigend, Colmonell. In 1888 he married Janet Jess at Mahaar farm, Inch, Wigtown. They had at least 6 children including a son Andrew b.1893. William was a shepherd and died 31 Aug 1920 at Preston Mill, Kirkbean, Kirkcudbright. I have all relevant Census entries for William.









Janet JESS:

Alias Janet GREGG
Born Friday 15 September 1865, Inch Village
OCCUPATION: Dairymaid
From Janet Greig Smith - March 2007 (janetgreigsmith@tiscali.co.uk ).
Janet Jess (Dairymaid - spinster aged 23 of Conchieton, Borgue:
daughter of Thomas Jess (Gardener's labourer) & Mary Jess m/s Fleming

Janet JESS:
Born on 9th April 1865 6am at Inch Village
Janet Jess was born: daughter of Thomas Jess (Agricultural labourer) & Mary Jess m/s Fleming
Parents' marriage 1853 November 24th, Aird, Parish of Inch
Informant Thomas: Thomas Jess (Father) present
(Ref: 1865b/Inch, Co. Wigtown 886-18)

Marion GREGG {F} [P1782]

Born ABT 1853, Minnigaff Kirkcudbright
Died Monday 2 February 1931, Garelochead Dunbarton Sc.
Jeff Higgins - June 2004:
Child 4.Marion Gregg, born c.1853 at Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright. She had an illegitimate son, John Burnett who was born 1874 at Daljorrock Hill, Colmonell. She married Henry MacDonald in 1889, I don't know if they had any children. Marion died at her son John Burnett's home in Garelochead, Dunbarton on 22 Feb 1931.

Janet GREGG {F} [P237] = John KELLY {M} [P1595] > Family [F257]

Married Kansas USA

Janet GREGG:

Alias Janet KELLY
Born Wednesday 8 August 1855, Dalreock, Colmonell Ayrs
Died Kansas USA
SOURCE: IGI/Birth Entry
IGI- C115801 born Bar by Girvan Ayrs. 8 Aug 1855.
Janet went to USA with Aunt Jennet Gregg[P1569] to Scotch Valley in 1875. Janet married [P1595]John Kelly(first cousin) in Kansas USA. We believe Janet's brother JOHN visited her in USA twice.

Jeff Higgins - June 2004:
Child 5.Janet Gregg, born 08 Aug 1855 at Dalreoch, Colmonell and according to the birth entry she was the 5th child, 2 boys and 3 girls living. Janet lived with her parents until she emigrated.
At Ellis Island website and found the following...
John Greig, 56, arrived in New York aboard the "Caledonia" on 07 Jul 1907, he was on his way to see his sister Mrs Janet Kelly in Seneca. He was a shepherd and lived in Pinwherry, Ayrshire.
John Greig, 62, arrived in New York again aboard the Caledonia (superstitious perhaps) on 14 Apr 1913, he was on his way to see his sister Mrs Janet Kelly in Seneca. He was a shepherd and he gave his brother Ivan Gregg, in Ballantrae, as a contact.

These seem to be the only TWO occasions that John visited


John KELLY:

Born Friday 21 January 1842, Penninghame Wigtown Ayrs Sc. (A twin to Marian)
Christened Sunday 30 January 1842, Penninghame Wigtown IGI-C118954
Died Kansas USA
SOURCE: Shannon E Kelly(USA)
John Kelly went as a young man to America to his uncle "Jimmy" Gregg to make a home for his mother and the brothers and sisters.
In America at aged 40 John Kelly married his first cousin [P237]Janet Gregg(Daughter to Andrew Gregg[P206]
John was a twin to Marian. Great Grandfather to Shannon E Kelly(USA).aska.

Ivie GREIG {M} [P210] = Martha ROSS {F} [P211] > Family [F66]

Married Tuesday 18 November 1879, Kirkholm Ballantrae Ayrs

Ivie GREIG:

Born Thursday 29 October 1857, Colmonell Ayrs IGI-C115821
Died Saturday 31 March 1945, Pinwerry Barr?
OCCUPATION: Shepherd
SOURCE: M.I - Barr/IGI
Jeff Higgins - June 2004:
Child 6.Ivie Gregg, born 29 Oct 1857 at Colmonell. He married Martha Ross at Kirkholm in Ballantrae on 18 Nov 1879. They had 3 children and lived at Ballantrae. Ivie was a shepherd, I have all census entries for Ivie except 1901 which, despite extensive searches, I have been unable to locate.
I can't find a 1901 census entry for Ivie and family, at first I thought they may have visited the U.S. around that time, but there seems to be no Ellis Island entry for an Ivie Greig (or variants). Maybe I haven't looked hard enough for Ivie in the 1901.


Martha ROSS:

Alias Martha GREIG
Born ABT 1855, Colmonell Ayrs
Died Monday 29 August 1932, Ballantrae
SOURCE: gravestone

Jane GREIG {F} [P235]

Born Sunday 24 June 1860, Colmonell Ayrs IGI-C115821
Died Tuesday 6 June 1950, Giffnock Newton Mearns Renfrew Sc.
Jeff Higgins - June 2004:
7.Jane (Jean) Gregg, born 24 Jun 1860 at Colmonell. She married Kennedy McHoull in Glasgow on 22 Jun 1883. They had 3 children. Jane died 06 Jul 1950 at her son's house in Giffnock, Newton Mearns, Renfrew.
___________________________________________________________________
Paul McHoull 20 Aug 2004:
My Family records show Jane and Kennedy McHoull Married 23 June 1883. I know of only two children Kennedy & Andrew Greig McHoull ( my Grand Father). Andrew Greig McHoull Married Sarah Johnston, they had 8 children, 5 of those children had Greig as their second name including my Uncle Andrew Greig McHoull. My Father's name was Kennedy McHoull.
Grand Parents Andrew & Sarah moved to New Zealand with the children in 1926 and settled in Dunedin. I have a Brother & two Cousins named Andrew Greig, looks like your family name lives on in one form in New Zealand. Paul McHoull. email: pbmch@xtra.co.nz
___________________________________________________________________
1881 Census Place: Dwelling: Dalrymple St Girvan, Ayr, Scotland. GRO Ref Volume 594 EnumDist 9 Page 2
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Kennedy MC HOULL M 41 M Girvan, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Master Baker (Employing 3 Men)
Agnes MC HOULL M 44 F Campbeltown, Argyll, Scotland Rel: Wife Occ: Shopkeeper
Minnie MC MC HOULL U 14 F Girvan, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Jane GREIG U 19 F Colmonell, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Serv (Domestic)

___________________________________________________________________
Info from Elizabeth Fisher September 2008: Did Jane GREGG marry Kennedy MC HOULL - probably the son of Kennedy McHOUL who was a 41 year old Master Baker of Dalrymple St, Girvan, AYR at the 1881 Census??

1881 SCOTLAND CENSUS
McHOUL Kennedy, 21y, drapers assistant, born Girvan, AYR is a boarder in the home of James/Mary BRYAN, of Old Cumnock, AYR.

1891 ENGLAND CENSUS McHOUL - living at 104 New Chester Road, New Ferry, Cheshire, ENG
Kennedy (Head, male, 32y, born Scotland, married, engine fitter)
Jane (Wife, 31y, born Scotland, married)
Andrew (son, 6y, born Scotland)
Kennedy (son, 3y, born Scotland)

1901 SCOTLAND CENSUS McHOUL - living at 13 Keyden St, Govan, Glasgow, LKS
Jane (Head, female, born Colmonell, AYR)
Andrew (son, 16y, born Glasgow, LKS; glass lead work apprentice)
Kennedy (son, 13y, born Glasgow, LKS; scholar)
Ella (daughter, 11y, born England; scholar)
CAMPBELL Angus (boarder, male, 1y, born Barrhill, AYR)
___________________________________________________________________

Agnes GREGG {F} [P207] = William BROADFOOT {M} [P209] > Family [F65]

Married Thursday 14 February 1884, Almont Hill Colmonell Ayrs

Agnes GREGG:

Alias Agnes BROADFOOT
Born Saturday 31 January 1863, Daljorroch Hill Colmonell Barr
Died Monday 20 May 1895, Pinwherry Braehead Barrhill Ayrs
SOURCE: IGI-C115821 / gravestone
Jeff Higgins - June 2004:
Child 8.Agnes Gregg, born 31 Jan 1863 at Daljorrock, Colmonell. She married William Broadfoot at Almont Hill, Colmonell on 14 Feb 1884. They had 6 children and lived at Braehead in Barrhill, where Agnes died on 20 May 1895. William died 28 Dec 1903 at Pinwherry.


William BROADFOOT:

Born EST 1866, ??
Died Monday 28 December 1903, Pinwherry Braehead Barhill Ayrs

Sarah Isabella GREGG {F} [P236]

Born Sunday 30 July 1865, Daljorrock Colmonell Ayrs IGI-C115821
Died Sunday 12 October 1924, Penninghame Wigtownshire
Jeff Higgins - June 2004:
Child 9.Sarah Isabella Gregg, born 30 Jul 1865 at Daljorrock, Colmonell. She married Robert Campbell at Eldrick, Barrhill on 24 Jun 1898. They had at least 3 children and lived in Kirkinner and Penninghame. Sarah died 12 Oct 1924 at Penninghame.

Andrew GREGG {M} [P264]

Born It is now doubtful that this person existed
OCCUPATION: Sheepherder
SOURCE: Scotch Valley History
IT IS STATED IN THE SCOTCH VALLEY HISTORY THAT:
This Andrew supposedly visited his uncle James Gregg[P729] family in USA twice.
Photo of 'Andrew' on website www.gfhp.co.uk - Barr Gregg's Link.

NOTE - Joan Fisher 2004: Andrew Gregg does not appear in Ivie's affidavit as a sibling, which makes me think he was really a grandson. These affidavits listed all the siblings living and dead because the shares had to go to the children of the dead.

NOTE - A D Gregg - 9 June 2004 :
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THIS PERSON DID NOT IN FACT EXIST - AND WAS MISTAKEN FOR JOHN GREGG[P1781] WHO WE KNOW VISITED AMERICA TWICE.
From write up of Scotch Valley sent by Shannon.
'3. Andrew Gregg lived and died in Scotland, A son Andrew visited the homes of the Gregg relatives in America. He visited twice. He was a sheepherder in Scotland. His Sister Janet went to America with her aunt Jennet and later married John Kelly'

If the word 'OF ' was left out, it would read ' A son OF Andrew visited the homes of the Gregg relatives in America. He visited twice.
Perhaps another son of Andrew Gregg visited, and this would account for there being no record of a son named Andrew.

Jeff Higgins - June 2004: CONFIRMATION-
John Greig, 56, arrived in New York aboard the "Caledonia" on 07 Jul 1907, he was on his way to see his sister Mrs Janet Kelly in Seneca. He was a shepherd and lived in Pinwherry, Ayrshire.
John Greig, 62, arrived in New York again aboard the Caledonia (superstitious perhaps) on 14 Apr 1913, he was on his way to see his sister Mrs Janet Kelly in Seneca. He was a shepherd and he gave his brother Ivan(Ivie) Gregg, in Ballantrae, as a contact.

Marriage Banns Barrhill & Comonell for Andrew Gregg/Isabella McIlwraith.
***
Jeff Higgins - June 2004: Andrew Gregg and Agnes McIlwraith married June 1846. Banns were proclaimed on consecutive Sundays (the 7th and 14th June) in both Isabella's home parish Barr and Andrew's home parish Colmonell and they would have married soon after. They had 9 children....
***

M.I Headstone at Barr Church Yard - Stinchar Valley Ayrshire[ADG1996]: ' Errected in memory of our father Andrew Greig born at Glashculloch 17th December 1813, died at Halfmark Barrhill 11th June 1885. Also our mother Izabella McIlwraith born at Daljedburgh? Mill 11th August 1823, died at Braehead Kirkinner 17th January 1904. Sister Agnes Greig born at Daljurroch? Hill 31st January 1866, died at Braehead Pinwerry 20th May 1895 - beloved wife of William Broadfoot. Also Andrew Greig grandson of above born at Buss Colmonell 22nd March 1881, died LAMDOUGHTY Barr 21st January 1908. Also of Gilbert Greig grandson of above born at Knockdu Colmonel 21st February 1885 lost in action on the Somme 1st July 1916. Also Martha Ross wife of Ivie Greig died at Auchenflower Cottage Ballantrae 29th August 1932? aged 73. Ivie Greig died at Pinwerry 31st March 1945? aged 87 years'.

IGI records show a daughter Jane born to Andrew Greig and Izabella 24 June 1860 at Colmonel
IGI also states that daughter Agnes was born Jan 31st 1863 at Colmonell and not as stated on the gravestone(Jan 31st 1866)
***

Joan Fisher - 2004:
A bit more stuff on the children of Andrew Gregg and Izabella McIlwraith. Apparently all the children changed their names to Grieg. This wasn't reflected in Ivie Gregg/Grieg's 1910 affadavit for the probate of James "Uncle Jimmy" Gregg's will but it was stated in the final probate document. (which sometime in the next decade I might be able to unearth in this room and mail to you.)

William Gregg/Grieg was living in Airdrie, Kirkbean, Dumfries in 1910
John Gregg/Grieg was living in 1910 in Eldrick Barhill, Newton Stewart, Scotland
Marion G/G was married to a Mr. McDonald and living in 1910 at 134 Aitkenhead Road (south side) c/o J. Burnett, Glasgow

Janet and John Kelly, according to his affidavit were living in Seneca, Kansas. I note in the Scotch Valley History this letter to the committee who wrote the book from Agnes Johnstone. Say writes, "The Kellys lived on Rogers land, lost it because Mr. Kelly had gone on some one's note. Lived awhile in Pawnee (City), then Section 22, was helped financially by Uncle "Jimmy" Gregg."

Ivie G/G was living in 1910 in Balrazle, Ballantrae, Ayr

Andrew Gregg does not appear in Ivie's affidavit as a sibling, which makes me think he was really a grandson. These affidavits listed all the siblings living and dead because the shares had to go to the children of the dead.

Jane G/G married Mr. McHoul and in 1910 was living at 535 Eglinton St., south side, Glasgow

Sarah Isabella G/G married Mr. Campbell and in 1910 was living at Causewayend, Newton Stewart, Wigtownshire, Scotland.

Agnes was dead as you know--I have yet to come to your information on her family so will wait to tell you where they were living
***
Jeff Higgins - June 2004:I have the following Census entries...
1841: Andrew, with parents and siblings George, Jannet and James at Balnahoin, Colmonell. John Coughtrie and family were nearby at Ligatchuk. The Kelly's (Alexander and Agnes) were living just over the border at Castle in Penninghame.
1851: Andrew with wife Isabella and children Agnes, William and John were at Laggan, Colmonell. Andrew was a shepherd.
1861: Andrew was a shepherd boarding at James Agnew's dairy farm, Troax, Colmonell
1861: Isabella with children Agnes, William, John, Marion, Janet, Ivy and Jane were at Cossamuck cottage, Colmonell
1871: Andrew with wife Isabella and children Janet, Ivie, Jean, Agnes and Sarah Isabella were at Daljorrock shepherd's house, Colmonell. Andrew and Ivie were shepherds.
1881:Andrew with wife Isabella and children John, Agnes and Sarah and his grandson John Burnett were at Daljorrock, Colmonell. Andrew and John were shepherds
1881 Census Dwelling Place: Daljerrock Mill Colmonell, Ayr, Scotland. GRO Ref Volume 582-1 EnumDist 5 Page 7
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Andrew GREGG M 66 M Barr, Ayr, Scotland. Rel: Head. Occ: Shepherd
Isabella GREGG M 56 F Barr, Ayr, Scotland. Rel: Wife. Occ: Shepherd Wife
John GREGG U 29 M Colmonell, Ayr, Scotland. Rel: Son. Occ: Shepherd.
Agnes GREGG U 17 F Colmonell, Ayr, ScotlandRel: Daur. Occ: Scholar
Sarah Isabella GREGG U 15 F Colmonell, Ayr, Scotland. Rel: Daugh. Occ: Scholar
John BURNET (GREGG) U 6 M Colmonell, Ayr, Scotland. Rel: Gran Son. Occ: Scholar[illegitimate son to Marion]
James JOHNS M 52 M Colmonell, Ayr, Scotland. Rel: Visitor. Occ: Tailor

I'M CERTAIN THERE WAS NO SON ANDREW....
He couldn't have been born before 1855 as Janet was 5th born.
There is no known statutory birth or death entry.
He doesn't appear with the family on any Census.
I have most relevant census entries for Andrew and Isabella's siblings (potential aunts and uncles), there are no "stray" Andrew Greggs living with any of them.
The affadavit (I would love a copy or transcript) does not mention an Andrew
I don't think it would be a grandson, John Burnett was the 1st born grandson (1874) and he wasn't a shepherd. There are only 2 grandsons called Andrew, one born 1881 and one born 1893, both too young to be the man in the photo
I like your theory Alec, one missing "of" can make a lot of difference and it seems the only candidates that fit the bill are Andrew and Isabella's sons. All 3 of them were shepherds and they are all the right age to be the man in the photo so I checked the Ellis Island website and found the following...
John Greig, 56, arrived in New York aboard the "Caledonia" on 07 Jul 1907, he was on his way to see his sister Mrs Janet Kelly in Seneca. He was a shepherd and lived in Pinwherry, Ayrshire.
John Greig, 62, arrived in New York again aboard the Caledonia (superstitious perhaps) on 14 Apr 1913, he was on his way to see his sister Mrs Janet Kelly in Seneca. He was a shepherd and he gave his brother Ivan Gregg, in Ballantrae, as a contact.
these seem to be the only TWO occasions that John visited
I can't find a 1901 census entry for Ivie and family, at first I thought they may have visited the U.S. around that time, but there seems to be no Ellis Island entry for an Ivie Greig (or variants). Maybe I haven't looked hard enough for Ivie in the 1901.
Could the man in the photo be John and his sister Janet Kelly?
Maybe Shannon has a pic of Janet to compare
Would appreciate your thoughts
Regards
Jeff